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What an incredible time I had conversing with two amazing humans, Shawn Parell and David Keplinger, about poetry as a way to show up in the world, how life lives us (instead of the other way around), the gift of reframing our stories (and reframing and reframing), a poem that has helped shape me (“These Awkward Efforts to Be Alive” by James Tipton), the importance of play, the difference between a poem and a journal entry, and so much more. It’s a joyous, open-hearted, fresh conversation! Find the episode here or anywhere you listen to podcasts.